Huber and hartshorne are the most eroded they've ever been. What will the mcps do?

Discussion in 'Hartshorne and Huber Woods Parks' started by wonderturtle, Jun 23, 2017.

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Huber and hartshorne are the most eroded they've ever been. So what will the mcps do about it?

  1. Get able-bodied professionals with power equipment to fix the trails

    1 vote(s)
    4.0%
  2. Re-route certain trails that are just waaaay beyond repair

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Partner with a capable knowledge dedicated organization like jorba to maintain trails properly

    5 vote(s)
    20.0%
  4. Send out a dozen 70 year old volunteers w/ hand tools, no direction and 3 hours

    19 vote(s)
    76.0%
  1. pooriggy

    pooriggy Well-Known Member Team MTBNJ Halter's

    Location:
    Cranford
    Yeah, the TM sessions are misguided.
    Activity is not productivity.
    Voice your concerns to the park system, they do listen.
     
    Mitch likes this.
  2. rustynuts

    rustynuts Active Member

    Location:
    Fair Haven
    I spoke with a gentlemen named Ken, who seems to be a lead architect. We crossed paths at Claypit and he discussed understanding concern and frustration with the erosion of the trail system. He explained one other concerned mountain biker was out there that day looking over trail(s) and coming up with "fixes." That was about a month or so ago, they had a trail maintenance and did an awful re-route that will turn into the same eroded trail that they closed off. Even if they listened, I just question common sense and or know how. I believe this is beyond the park system at this point.
     
  3. mike_243

    mike_243 JORBA Board Member/Chapter Leader JORBA.ORG

    Location:
    Brick,New Jersey
    The sheer frustration level here is felt.
    I have been to 3 TM sessions here in the past and we built water bars on the "road" up from the butter milk lot the first one. The second one we did a few water bar repairs in the back section.
    The third and last one a two small groups broke off from the main water bar brigade and did some "real" work that unfortunately did not go over well .
    I have not been to a session in some time and I hope if there is a new leadership in place that a bit of common sense is now in place and we can get the park back to a better state.
     
    Mitch likes this.
  4. wonderturtle

    wonderturtle Well-Known Member

    Location:
    middletown
    The downhill trail with all The waterbars at huber (seriously I think it might Be 20 waterbars ) is way beyond repair. It needs to be rerouted.

    It would take several DAYS of work by able bodied men (not 3 hours by 70 year olds) to get that in shape. And then even if it was properly fixed the first big rain storm and all the work gets washed out.it happens time and time and time and time again.

    For this reason I refuse to do earth work when I do tm with them.. I trim back the overgrowth (at least that way my effort isn't wasted)

    It's insulting to the volunteers to make them fix trail sections like that. Make them break their back s for 3 hour and first rain storm....washed out again.

    It would be faaaaar easier to create a re-route and would make far more sense. It would be far more sustainable.

    But won't happen
     
  5. stb222

    stb222 Love Drunk Jerk Squad

    Location:
    Jerksville
    There is a solution here but I can't write it here.

    I don't like the attitude that the park owes it to the public to make it safe and I think that attitude gets you no where. I think the easy response to that is that it is safe for walking, so lets close it to bikes. No mowing along trails besides fields? That should be the least of the concerns.
     
  6. wonderturtle

    wonderturtle Well-Known Member

    Location:
    middletown
    Disagree on many accounts. These are heavily used trails. Hikers. Equestrians. And bikers. These are not trails in some far off park in a rural area. This are heavily used parks in densely suburban areas. These are heavily used by many users groups and of all ages. Just over the weekend I saw a multi-generational family (from kids 3 years old to grandparents) walking through hartshorne. There is an expectation by the public and an obligation by the mcps that they be walkable. And some sections simply are not.

    And there simply is no excuse for them to not mow the trails. Same point -the y have an obligation to reduce unnecessary expose by the public to Lymes. Simply no excuse not to mow the trail. I talked to a lady few weeks ago - she and her husband each pulled 20+ ticks off themselves after a walk in the ramnessien section of holmdel. I believe it.I pulled off 2 and I was on a bike.

    And it's funny - mcps knows about the problem - right there on the web page for Tatum park - a warning about Lymes disease. And when you click on the Map - right there on the map a warning about Lymes disease. Their top suggestion (which makes tons of sense) - AVOID AREAS OF TALL GRASS!! https://www.monmouthcountyparks.com/page.aspx?ID=2538

    At least appreciate the irony.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
    Mitch likes this.
  7. David Taylor

    David Taylor Rex kwan Do

    Devil's elbow is rerouted nicely! Head up the hill about 30' further before making right.
     
    pooriggy likes this.
  8. KenS

    KenS JORBA: President JORBA.ORG

    Location:
    Mays Landing
    Bottom line - If they embrace modern trail building techniques, fix/re-route existing problem areas with water control features, then the system will self - sustain. JORBA's original crew who worked in H/H more or less quit because modern techniques and MTB were not a priority.

    I can only hope that future work embraces a modern maintenance approach.
     
  9. Matt_

    Matt_ I Get Jokes

    Location:
    Jackson/Howell
    I did find it odd how much of the training was about water bar installation......
     
  10. pooriggy

    pooriggy Well-Known Member Team MTBNJ Halter's

    Location:
    Cranford
    Yeah, this is way better then the elbow. It is still a bit steep but at least there was bench cutting.
    Was this done at a TM?
     
  11. David Taylor

    David Taylor Rex kwan Do

    Not sure. Didn't see a TM listed but looked like a job well done. The roots descent after climbing the red hill after crossing Hartshorne road is dangerously eroded.
     
  12. RSabarese

    RSabarese Active Member

    Location:
    Clark
    Has the overgrowth been trimmed yet? If not, any ideas on when it will be? Last time I went was a tick nightmare....
     
  13. David Taylor

    David Taylor Rex kwan Do

    Nope
     
  14. jimvreeland

    jimvreeland Shop: Hilltop Bicycles Shop Keep

    Location:
    Pissthataway
    At least you have a place to ride and erosion is good for working on bike handling skills. If you're afraid of ticks, you should stay home and watch cartoons.
     
    stilluf likes this.
  15. mike_243

    mike_243 JORBA Board Member/Chapter Leader JORBA.ORG

    Location:
    Brick,New Jersey
    I like cartoons....
     
    Brian Snyder likes this.
  16. wonderturtle

    wonderturtle Well-Known Member

    Location:
    middletown
    well that's a good change. I was talking about that very change at a trail session a few years ago.

    now maybe they'll re-route a few other desperately needed changes - and its not a lot - that's the frustration (it wouldnt take much):

    • the laurel ridge hill (the rooty eroded mess) needs to be rerouted. that's a walking hazard.
    • the 20-30 waterbar hill at Huber (don't make the volunteers work on that AGAIN just so it can get washed out at the first rain storm which happens every time. also a walking hazard too.
    just making those few changes would be wonderful.

    well, that and cutting back the poison ivy and sticker bushes from a few very overgrown sections (e..g, the Monmouth Hills section of Hartshorne)
     
  17. wonderturtle

    wonderturtle Well-Known Member

    Location:
    middletown
    that's the unfortunate thing - I do just that. I avoid those parks when they get overgrown. I don't go to Tatum, etc. when the grass is knee deep on the trails and when in Hartshorne I skip the sections (Monmouth Hills) that get overgrown.

    sad thing (and I am sure countless other taxpayers) shouldn't have to avoid the parks due to the negligence of the MCPS.
     
  18. AndyJ

    AndyJ Active Member

    Location:
    Keansburg, NJ
    There are still some overgrown spots, but it looks like the area on Grand Tour near the rock garden has finally been trimmed/mowed. So, at least there's some progress.
     
  19. SmooveP

    SmooveP Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Little Silver
    Hartshorne has a rock garden? Can't wait to try it!
     
    pooriggy likes this.
  20. AndyJ

    AndyJ Active Member

    Location:
    Keansburg, NJ
    :rolleyes: Well, I've heard that area referred to as the "rock garden" before. Sure, they're small rocks, but it's the only place on that trail where there's an unusually high concentration of them.:D
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017 at 5:41 PM

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